Unlike Vietnam draft dodgers every single one of these persons joined the military on a voluntary basis knowing full well they may end up in a war, so I have no sympathy for them and I hope Canada does not grant them any refugee status.
I dont agree with the war, or Bush but they were not forced into the US military.
In many respects, I agree with you. They did voluntarily join, and were not drafted as during the Vietnam "conflict." That does very much hurt their cause while seeking refuge in Canada.
However, one could argue that it takes extreme measures to cause change. Each time a soldier refuses to report to duty, or refuses to fight, it does send a powerful message to the leadership that change must occur.
A friend of mine did this in Iraq, where he was ordered to patrol a specific street and he refused with a list of reasons. He told his commanding officer that if he would lead them, they will all follow. But, he wouldn't do it on command due to obvious reasons (enemy fire, lack of armor, questionable objective, etc.) The commanding officer refused to lead them, so my friend and the soldiers under him followed the commanding officer away from the assignment.
There are many instances of mutiny or refusal to fight that in the long run forced change in either the way the military is being treated, or the manner in which the war is being faught. An example would be the
French Mutiny of 1917.
But, I do agree with you. They did volunarily join the military, making their bargaining power weak.
It seems very short sighted to sign up for the US military in hopes of a free education etc. and then not like the job you are asked to do in return.
I have huge misgivings about the entire US foreign policy but as both of you have suggested - this was not a 'draft' situation.
Are people allowed to change their minds? Of course but that is not a good arguement for a refugee claim.
IMO :)
Good article, Antoine. Good to know there's a network going on up there for those who need it.
one more Canadian solider were killed.....
how many soliders got killed in the past two weeks????
I heard a war vet today on the radio say that Canada has always stepped up to fight wars that did not involve them directly. The Second World war is the most vivid example. They did it because it was the right thing to do. Then a guy came on and said - if soldiers did not come and fight the bad guys in Holland- he would have died in his home country. He is now living a good life in Canada.
I am not saying it is pleasant - but they have a point.
if you have a referendum in Canada on if should send troops to Afghanistan, most likely it will be turned down. However The referendum or plebiscite is a form of direct democracy, you will not stop Barbarian to bury Roma Empire.............
NATO should focus on how to creat employment opportunity, teach people fishing skills rather than give them fish....
quote from Confucius..
Spent big budget on construction on road, school, power plants, people will not join terrorists if they have way to live....
Back at Marshall Plan time, 1.5% of U.S GDP go thru to foreign aid,
now? 0.34%????????????????????!!!!!!!!! of course no more cold war..
Canada? even worst. Liberal promised 0.7% before 2005 G8 concert,
current 0.28%...
war just does not slove problem, look at Iraq....
I support troops, but must set target and time frame...
it's not unlimited chase Taliban here and there....
did anybody watch movie Kandahar before?
Departure Bay Wrote:NATO should focus on how to creat employment opportunity, teach people fishing skills rather than give them fish....
Spent big budget on construction on road, school, power plants, people will not join terrorists if they have way to live....
You've got that right, DB. It's common sense, really.
when I talk about this with my Muslim guy - he says what is needed is education, work and democracy so people can have hope. Right now so many have nothing to live for. Dying for something at least gives you value.
I had never thought of it that way.
no democracy for Iraq or Afghanistan please, must feed people and curfew every night... who carries gun or drive cars do not stop, shoot and kill!!!
American promosied to bring democracy to Iraq, it's even worst than Saddam
Hi all,
I really enjoyed this thread as my husband is one of the war resisters in Canada and also a member of Iraq Veterans Against the War, however not in that particular article. One of the men in the Article, SGT Patrick Hart has 9.5 years in the service - as indicated another received the purple heart for being injured in Iraq.
My husband served in Iraq with the USMC. He never received a signing bonus or promises of paid education, which is accumulated by time in service. The fact that there is no longer a draft means very little if that is the reasoning being used. As with any civilian contract, breach of contract results in fines and not prison time. As in any war orders are orders and soldiers are putting themselves at risk by deploying to what the rest of the world deems an illegal war. Here is a link to the Nuremberg Principles, some of you might already be familiar. It essentially states that any soldier who commits war crimes can be punished under internationl law, regardless of his own country considering it to be a war crime.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Principles
Right now my husband and I are applying under inland spousal sponsorship, we can't take advantage of legal aid and have found little solace in knowing that even after having serving in Iraq, so many refuse to aknowledge the war crimes and atrocities being committed before our very eyes. My husband is far from a coward, he is a man who is capable of determining right from wrong. Jimmy Carter had the right idea when granting amnesty to American draft dodgers and hopefully in 2008 there will be a forward thinking President to do the same.
Lisa
LisaTO Wrote:Hi all,
I really enjoyed this thread as my husband is one of the war resisters in Canada and also a member of Iraq Veterans Against the War, however not in that particular article. One of the men in the Article, SGT Patrick Hart has 9.5 years in the service - as indicated another received the purple heart for being injured in Iraq.
My husband served in Iraq with the USMC. He never received a signing bonus or promises of paid education, which is accumulated by time in service. The fact that there is no longer a draft means very little if that is the reasoning being used. As with any civilian contract, breach of contract results in fines and not prison time. As in any war orders are orders and soldiers are putting themselves at risk by deploying to what the rest of the world deems an illegal war. Here is a link to the Nuremberg Principles, some of you might already be familiar. It essentially states that any soldier who commits war crimes can be punished under internationl law, regardless of his own country considering it to be a war crime. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Principles
Right now my husband and I are applying under inland spousal sponsorship, we can't take advantage of legal aid and have found little solace in knowing that even after having serving in Iraq, so many refuse to aknowledge the war crimes and atrocities being committed before our very eyes. My husband is far from a coward, he is a man who is capable of determining right from wrong. Jimmy Carter had the right idea when granting amnesty to American draft dodgers and hopefully in 2008 there will be a forward thinking President to do the same.
Lisa
I just don't understand...if he didn't want to be in a war, why did he choose to become a soldier in the first place?
Hey Cupid,
My husband does not object to war, he objects to this particular war. He was happy to fight for his country, before he was able to see with his own two eyes that Iraq, is an invasion and not war. He has plenty of stories to tell regarding something as big as a check point shooting, to something seemingly small as routine theft of Iraqis personal belongings during raids.
For an honest person, these thing weigh heavily on your moral. The United States military used White Phosphorous many times, even though they initially denied it. My husband failed a series of hearing tests upon return to the USA, ( the military provided no hearing protection) and was diagnosed with PTSD shortly after going U/A. He went to war, received 3 medals and 1 ribbon for being a veteran. He refused to re-deploy, which to me says "fool me once, shame on you - fool me twice, shame on me"
Not trying to change opinions, just trying to voice my own.
after you watch 911, probably all young kids wanna join army and beat those bastards!! but Bush administration lied to public, there are no WMDS! used troops to go to Iraq.
I guess U.S soliders are under extremely stress in Iraq...
This is not what we watched on Green Day" wake me up when Sep ends",
Iraq war is not like that.....
politics are just so fuxxed up....
soliders fight 24/7 in order to survive, those politician can sit on the dinner table and complain how hard is the war and still play politics the next day...... Those bastards sent kids to die, screw you!!!!